forum Politics and Society ›› Half of world's animals gone since 1970 ›› new reply Post Reply
WREN
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February 18 2015 12:15 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: tom.

you said that you value all life equally. that's why i mention plants, germs, etc.



It's a reach and an argument that I had to defend 15 years ago when I first went vegetarian...against other 17 year olds. I expect better from you, Thomas.


And you don't understand the claim that people can look at animals as equal because you personally don't believe it. There are definitely people out there that feel that way. As I said, all the ethical vegans and vegetarians that fight daily for animal rights are a prime example. If looking at humans not being any better than another species in terms of value is that impossible of an idea, animal rights wouldn't even be a thought.
crunkmoose
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February 18 2015 12:22 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
"i was only addressing the claim that humans and animals are equal when just no one holds that standard or ever has."

So grossly ignorant as to be utterly beneath you, Tom. Seriously. No one has held that humans and animals are equal in terms of the value of their lives? Even outside of the random folks or tiny sects that think that Jains definitely think that and its no stretch at all to say at least some versions of Buddhism believe that. I wouldn't say it was universal for Buddhists, but an argument could be made.
Dianana
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February 18 2015 12:24 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Hindus think cows rule super hard.
WREN
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February 18 2015 12:26 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
And a lot of Thais will fuck your day up if you even look at an elephant wrong.
WREN
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February 18 2015 12:28 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: crunkmoose

"i was only addressing the claim that humans and animals are equal when just no one holds that standard or ever has."

So grossly ignorant as to be utterly beneath you, Tom. Seriously. No one has held that humans and animals are equal in terms of the value of their lives? Even outside of the random folks or tiny sects that think that Jains definitely think that and its no stretch at all to say at least some versions of Buddhism believe that. I wouldn't say it was universal for Buddhists, but an argument could be made.




It's not universal for Buddhists as some schools believe that we are reincarnated as certain animals as a result of negative karma. I, a Buddhist, don't agree with that.
tom.
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February 18 2015 1:11 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: WREN

Originally posted by: tom.

you said that you value all life equally. that's why i mention plants, germs, etc.



It's a reach and an argument that I had to defend 15 years ago when I first went vegetarian...against other 17 year olds. I expect better from you, Thomas.


And you don't understand the claim that people can look at animals as equal because you personally don't believe it. There are definitely people out there that feel that way. As I said, all the ethical vegans and vegetarians that fight daily for animal rights are a prime example. If looking at humans not being any better than another species in terms of value is that impossible of an idea, animal rights wouldn't even be a thought.

you can patronize me, but the statement just isn't true. i could agree with:
i value all life.
i value animal life more than most people.
but to say "i value all life equally" just isn't true.

to coincide with your second point, animal rights has always been a thought. some cultures place higher value than others, but it's still not "all life."
WREN
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February 18 2015 1:25 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
You are grasping at a technicality. We're clearly talking about animals and humans, not germs and plants. I get it, plants are living...blah blah blah.

What I'm having trouble with here is your inability to understand that there are people out there with this belief that humans are really no better than animals in terms of value. It's one thing to disagree with that belief, but to dismiss it completely is ignorant.

As far as my second point, I hate to use them because I loathe them as a company, but have you ever read PETA articles or statements? They are absolutely talking about all life. They are just one of many animal rights organizations out there. It would be hypocritical to ask for animal rights for just some animals but not others.
Dianana
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February 18 2015 2:32 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: tom.


you can patronize me, but the statement just isn't true. i could agree with:
i value all life.
i value animal life more than most people.
but to say "i value all life equally" just isn't true.



you don't think this is patronizing? because i find this patronizing while splitting hairs.
tom.
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February 18 2015 2:43 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
patronizing would have been if i said i expected better of someone.
i'm just addressing the use of equality in the statement. i think it's a pretty big hair to split, but whatever.
good talk.

Dianana
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February 18 2015 2:46 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Rats in the walls
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May 30 2015 12:31 AM   QuickQuote Quote  





Mass deaths of endangered antelope stumps scientists MAY 29, 2015 nytimes.com


At least 120,000 of the animals have died in Kazakhstan since mid-May. Environmental and biological factors could be at play, but the exact cause is a mystery.

The saiga, a critically endangered Asian antelope species, has been decimated by a mysterious, fast-moving disease. In the past two weeks, more than third of all saigas have been killed, conservationists have found.

The cause of the outbreak is unknown, but scientists believe it is always fatal.

“I’m flustered looking for words here,” said Joel Berger, a senior scientist at the Wildlife Conservation Society. “To lose 120,000 animals in two or three weeks is a phenomenal thing.”

Before the end of the Ice Age, saiga lived over a vast range stretching from England to Alaska. After the climate warmed, they continued to thrive on the steppes of Central Asia.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, however, the saiga population fell by more than 95 percent. Poachers were mainly responsible, killing the animals to sell their horns in China for use in traditional medicines.

Earlier this month, Aline Kuehl-Stenzel, the terrestrial species coordinator of the Convention on the Conservation of Migratory Species of Wild Animals, an environmental treaty overseen by the United Nations, received a report from the Kazakhstan government that hundreds of saiga had suddenly died, including many mothers with nursing calves. The death toll has continued to climb ever since.

Many species of grazing mammals suffer periodic die-offs, which can be caused by drought or viruses such as rinderpest. But because the saiga population is so reduced, the current die-off has claimed a huge proportion of the species.

“The scale is absolutely unprecedented,” said Dr. Kuehl-Stenzel.
Rats in the walls
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June 19 2015 5:13 AM   QuickQuote Quote  


Originally posted by: Dwarn



Attenborough goes on and on about the need to depopulate people, not just birth control but actually depopulating those that are alive.





no he doesn't. you're not just an idiot, you're a liar.




the cat
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June 19 2015 9:22 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
the cat
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June 19 2015 9:32 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
crunkmoose
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July 12 2015 5:24 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: tom.

patronizing would have been if i said i expected better of someone.
i'm just addressing the use of equality in the statement. i think it's a pretty big hair to split, but whatever.
good talk.




Dude, you failed at Matt levels in stating that no one believes all animals to be equal to humans. If my reply was patronizing, you earned it.
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