all threads All Threads ›› Israel: Uh, yeah... about that settlement freeze... ›› new reply Post Reply
LEATHERFACE
Hail Caesar
3,756 Posts
36/M/NC


offline   (7)
January 3 2010 10:24 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
Completely un-flushable
LEATHERFACE
Hail Caesar
3,756 Posts
36/M/NC


offline   (7)
January 3 2010 10:33 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: crunkmoose

Originally posted by: paradelights

Originally posted by: crunkmoose

Originally posted by: paradelights

Originally posted by: crunkmoose

Originally posted by: paradelights

Originally posted by: crunkmoose

Originally posted by: paradelights

Israel isn't targeting civlians so stop crying about it. Sucks they get hit, but they aren't deliberately trying to kill them.



Yes, they sometimes are. When you drop cluster bombs in civilian areas (which, again, is a war crime) you ARE targeting civilians. When they bulldoze the houses of suicide bombers' families, they are targeting civilians. When they use collective punishment (another war crime), they are targeting civilians.

Just because you want it to be true does not make it true. YOU are the only one here making excuses for war crimes and for the murder of civilians. Get that straight. While some may be more sympathetic to the palestinians, I have yet to see anyone here actually saying that what is done by militants is actually acceptable.



evidence?

you have this bad habit of making blanket exaggerations, and false claims.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5299938.stm

Mr Egeland added: "Cluster bombs have affected large areas - lots of homes, lots of farmland. They will be with us for many months, possibly years.

"Every day, people are maimed, wounded and killed by these weapons. It shouldn't have happened."

Mr Egeland said his information had come from the UN Mine Action Co-ordination Centre, which had undertaken assessments of nearly 85% of the bombed areas in Lebanon.

Earlier this week the US state department launched an inquiry into whether Israel misused US-made cluster bombs in Lebanon during the conflict.

A senior White House official told the BBC that the investigation would focus on whether US-made weapons were used against non-military targets.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/761781.html

"What we did was insane and monstrous, we covered entire towns in cluster bombs," the head of an IDF rocket unit in Lebanon said regarding the use of cluster bombs and phosphorous shells during the war.

Quoting his battalion commander, the rocket unit head stated that the IDF fired around 1,800 cluster bombs, containing over 1.2 million cluster bomblets.



where is the evidence that there were not violent islamic cells hidden in these villages?
this is the evidence I'm looking for. anything can look bad out of context. You must be sure before you start pointing fingers.



Even if there were it is still a war crime and it is still murder. These are cluster bombs... not standard explosive munitions, and dropping them in civilian areas is a war crime whether there are militants there or not. That is because not all of their bomblettes explode when dropped and can explode later killing and maiming civilians. Children far too often find them and play with them not knowing what they are.

As usual, you are making excuses. You drop cluster bombs into a civilian area it is a war crime and it is the knowing murder and/or maiming of civilians.



Good work, you found one example of something terrible that Israel did. I condemn it straight out. But if you read in this article, I want you to recognize that Israel is not doing this anymore. They stopped doing this. Apparently this article was last updated "Wednesday, 30 August 2006, 18:56 GMT 19:56 UK " 4 YEARS AGO!!

Now should I go through the violent history of Palestine starting from the latest time of all the things they did to civilians?!? Since this cluster bombing, Israel has renounced their actions so why are you crying about something Israel isn't doing now? Yes it was terrible, but it's long in the past after people have already said they won't do it.

so what's your argument?



I found one example? Perhaps you should do a little research for yourself.

As for it being nearly 4 years ago... that was the date of their last major incursion into Lebanon, dumbass. That doesn't necessarily mean they have stopped dropping cluster bombs at all, just that they have not had a major bombing campaign AT ALL since.

Cluster bombs (and Israel knew this) can last for years if the parts are not all found.. which means they can kill for years.

As for the palestinians... you go right ahead and list all their atrocities if you like.... I have never said they do not occur or made any excuses for them. You were defending israel's record because you had no idea what israel's record was. You found out they have actually done terrible, criminal things... so you try to act (as is so often the case with those who are pro-israel) like calling them on their war crimes somehow means one agrees with palestinian violence. I do not agree with such acts no matter who does them... jew, arab, israeli, palestinian, lebanese... does not fucking matter.

I am, however, genuinely glad to see you actually condemn israel's actions rather than just make lots of excuses for it when it was clearly criminal.



^do you see, Sharplimbed? Do you see the sheer size of this colossally futile display? THIS is why I'm posting like an idiot, there's no point being serious about this abomination. This is like a pair of little yappy dogs with typewriters.
aboutleaving
stainin
20,639 Posts
32/M/NA


offline   (1)
January 3 2010 10:50 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
I can't read what Crunk wrote without reading what matt wrote. And I'm not willing to read what matt wrote.

I'm not going to justify crunk arguing with him, because I think it's wrong. I think matt should be completely ignored, or failing that, insulted and taunted and nothing more.

This is why matt should be ignored by all. He's unthinkably stupid and simply won't respond to logic and reason, and is horribly arrogant and patronising at the same time. Brings out the worst in people. I'd like it if he were deleted permanently.

Now tell me I hate free speech and want the "other side" silenced.
LEATHERFACE
Hail Caesar
3,756 Posts
36/M/NC


offline   (7)
January 3 2010 10:58 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
At least you're honest.
Quite frankly I see crunk and matt as different sides to the same coin.
See how they cannot keep from their petty sparring? Hell- it's just like israel and palestine
aboutleaving
stainin
20,639 Posts
32/M/NA


offline   (1)
January 3 2010 11:09 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
i think crunk just has a hard time letting such stupid bullshit go unrebutted. there's a huge difference between that and spouting bullshit about subjects you know nothing of and then being completely unresponsive to opposing arguments/facts.

look how confident he was that a chicken was a mammal in the sticky thread at the top of this forum. he posts the dictionary definition of mammal in an attempt to mock someone who is saying he's wrong.
LEATHERFACE
Hail Caesar
3,756 Posts
36/M/NC


offline   (7)
January 3 2010 11:42 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
Crunk has the same arrogance and patronizing manner- and he constantly exploits loopholes around any evidence presented to him while condemning others for the same tactics.

But I will say that calling a chicken a mammal is unforgivable. I should know.
aboutleaving
stainin
20,639 Posts
32/M/NA


offline   (1)
January 3 2010 12:06 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: JFick

Crunk has the same arrogance and patronizing manner- and he constantly exploits loopholes around any evidence presented to him while condemning others for the same tactics.

But I will say that calling a chicken a mammal is unforgivable. I should know.



man is truth is infinitely worse in that respect. but the problem is when that sort of attitude is combined with astounding ignorance about literally everything discussed on these boards and an eagerness to chime in.

Crunk will not deny facts are facts and will address what is being said, so it's not the same thing.
crunkmoose
Fuck Nazis.
24,526 Posts
62/M/MA


offline   (9)
January 3 2010 12:10 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: JFick

Crunk has the same arrogance and patronizing manner- and he constantly exploits loopholes around any evidence presented to him while condemning others for the same tactics.

But I will say that calling a chicken a mammal is unforgivable. I should know.



To some people, yes... including you. Not because you disagree with me, though. I actually have respect for some of the people who disagree with me... Liam, Pudge, even to a degree Dwarn... because ludicrous as he may sometimes seem and as insistent and stuborn as he is, overall Dwarn is usually not as much of a patronizing jackass as some of theo other conspiracy mavens aroun dhere.
Kadesh
Kadesh
37,497 Posts
35/M/PA


offline     (27)
January 3 2010 4:54 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: LordLuvKnuckle

Originally posted by: paradelights

I want you to think about what you're saying. Do you believe that any one has a right to have any land? Where do you live now? America right? Didn't the American indians live here first yet we took their land. Does any country right now currently exist because someone hasn't conquered someone else?
The world works in this way: A weak people are conquered and the land is taken.
Yes it's terrible, but you enjoy the benefits of it right now by living in America. To say things against a people living in a land would be hypocritical on your part.

I'm saying the Jews have a right to exist, and since this has been their place for longer than any nation can really recall since the times of the Romans and centuries before that, are you going to say that they don't deserve a home to call their own?



your quotes make sense for about 5 seconds, and unfortunately this is an argument that does have a lot of gray.

Do Jews have a right to live? Yes . Do they have a right to "COME BACK FROM WHERE THEY CAME FROM" so they can claim their homeland? Well at what expense? The expense of the Palestinians.

And fuck your hypocritical argument about the United States and the Native Americans. That is different argument although you may feel like it similar. Native American WERE there first and had their land TAKEN from them through a slow Genocide, in the name of God, more importantly . . .your boy JC. This situation has similarities, and I know you are just dying to throw out the "HYPOCRITICAL" bullet to change the convo to your favor.

The situation in Israel is more like this. . . . YOu live in a nice Apartment for a year. . .then a former Resident of that apartment comes back because they "claim " they were there first, so there fore it is their right to movinto your apartment, but they are understanding that you live there too so they jam all of your shit, including yourself into the walk in clost.

That's pretty much the Scenario with Israel and Palestine.

They come marching in because they "CAME FROM ISRAEL" (according to who?? ? ? ? ) And bring with them, oppression, murder. . . . .

YOu still have shown you know nothing of Israel or jews for that matter, rather you compare apples to Oranges.


There's nothing magical about the "success" of jews -- they're simply a highly organized and networked gang of thieves and murderers that have been perfecting their craft for over 2,000 years.



No, , your analogy is called a "false analogy" because you're relying on rules set up by American society, and economy. You choose not to realize that the world in regards to land play by different rules.

Furthermore, you don't realize that Israel did not come back to their country with guns and force, they just started moving in till Palestine got all pissed off they were moving into the neighborhood. Israel fought to protect where they live, and won. Here is your history lesson. Educate.

"When the United Nations took up the Palestine question in 1947, it recommended that all of Jerusalem be internationalized. The Jewish Agency, after much soul-searching, agreed to accept internationalization in the hope that in the short-run it would protect the city from bloodshed and the new state from conflict. The Arab states were as bitterly opposed to the internationalization of Jerusalem as they were to the rest of the partition plan. Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion, subsequently, declared that Israel would no longer accept the internationalization of Jerusalem.
In May 1948, Jordan invaded and occupied east Jerusalem, dividing the city for the first time in its history, and driving thousands of Jews - whose families had lived in the city for centuries - into exile. For the next 19 years, the city was split, with Israel establishing its capital in western Jerusalem and Jordan occupying the eastern section, which included the Old City and most religious shrines."
click here for link

Palestine ATTACKED THEM. They did not attack Palestine. They were not marching with oppression and murder but rather victims of racism (according to history). Many jews had already been living in Jerusalem for long periods of time while Palestine controlled it. You being a black brother, should be able to communicate alot with what if feels like to discriminated against because of race.

My argument about the Native Americans stands because YOU STILL LIVE HERE AND LOVE TO LIVE HERE. If you bash Israel for moving into their land WITHOUT FORCE, why don't you bash Americans for forcing Native Americans for to move out of their homes and taking their land WITH force. You're a hypocrite. And what's worse is you're a hypocrite that doesn't know Jewish history.
Kadesh
Kadesh
37,497 Posts
35/M/PA


offline     (27)
January 3 2010 4:57 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: Sharplimbed



Crunk will not deny facts are facts and will address what is being said, so it's not the same thing.



L-O-L. Crunk will deny anything that doesn't fit his world view. He is not a truth seeker. He's a buddhist who's philosophy is "what is truth" so how can you say that?
Kadesh
Kadesh
37,497 Posts
35/M/PA


offline     (27)
January 3 2010 5:05 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: crunkmoose

Israel isn't targeting civlians so stop crying about it. Sucks they get hit, but they aren't deliberately trying to kill them.



Yes, they sometimes are. When you drop cluster bombs in civilian areas (which, again, is a war crime) you ARE targeting civilians. When they bulldoze the houses of suicide bombers' families, they are targeting civilians. When they use collective punishment (another war crime), they are targeting civilians.

Just because you want it to be true does not make it true. YOU are the only one here making excuses for war crimes and for the murder of civilians. Get that straight. While some may be more sympathetic to the palestinians, I have yet to see anyone here actually saying that what is done by militants is actually acceptable.


evidence?

you have this bad habit of making blanket exaggerations, and false claims.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5299938.stm

Mr Egeland added: "Cluster bombs have affected large areas - lots of homes, lots of farmland. They will be with us for many months, possibly years.

"Every day, people are maimed, wounded and killed by these weapons. It shouldn't have happened."

Mr Egeland said his information had come from the UN Mine Action Co-ordination Centre, which had undertaken assessments of nearly 85% of the bombed areas in Lebanon.

Earlier this week the US state department launched an inquiry into whether Israel misused US-made cluster bombs in Lebanon during the conflict.

A senior White House official told the BBC that the investigation would focus on whether US-made weapons were used against non-military targets.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/761781.html

"What we did was insane and monstrous, we covered entire towns in cluster bombs," the head of an IDF rocket unit in Lebanon said regarding the use of cluster bombs and phosphorous shells during the war.

Quoting his battalion commander, the rocket unit head stated that the IDF fired around 1,800 cluster bombs, containing over 1.2 million cluster bomblets.


where is the evidence that there were not violent islamic cells hidden in these villages?
this is the evidence I'm looking for. anything can look bad out of context. You must be sure before you start pointing fingers.


Even if there were it is still a war crime and it is still murder. These are cluster bombs... not standard explosive munitions, and dropping them in civilian areas is a war crime whether there are militants there or not. That is because not all of their bomblettes explode when dropped and can explode later killing and maiming civilians. Children far too often find them and play with them not knowing what they are.

As usual, you are making excuses. You drop cluster bombs into a civilian area it is a war crime and it is the knowing murder and/or maiming of civilians.


Good work, you found one example of something terrible that Israel did. I condemn it straight out. But if you read in this article, I want you to recognize that Israel is not doing this anymore. They stopped doing this. Apparently this article was last updated "Wednesday, 30 August 2006, 18:56 GMT 19:56 UK " 4 YEARS AGO!!

Now should I go through the violent history of Palestine starting from the latest time of all the things they did to civilians?!? Since this cluster bombing, Israel has renounced their actions so why are you crying about something Israel isn't doing now? Yes it was terrible, but it's long in the past after people have already said they won't do it.

so what's your argument?


I found one example? Perhaps you should do a little research for yourself.

As for it being nearly 4 years ago... that was the date of their last major incursion into Lebanon, dumbass. That doesn't necessarily mean they have stopped dropping cluster bombs at all, just that they have not had a major bombing campaign AT ALL since.

Cluster bombs (and Israel knew this) can last for years if the parts are not all found.. which means they can kill for years.

As for the palestinians... you go right ahead and list all their atrocities if you like.... I have never said they do not occur or made any excuses for them. You were defending israel's record because you had no idea what israel's record was. You found out they have actually done terrible, criminal things... so you try to act (as is so often the case with those who are pro-israel) like calling them on their war crimes somehow means one agrees with palestinian violence. I do not agree with such acts no matter who does them... jew, arab, israeli, palestinian, lebanese... does not fucking matter.

I am, however, genuinely glad to see you actually condemn israel's actions rather than just make lots of excuses for it when it was clearly criminal.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crunkmoose,
I can't find anything about cluster bombs except for that article you gave. It's been 4 friggin years. You're citing something in the Bush years. That was condemned by America. You're trying to pass off old news as something happening now. That is very sneaky, but I asked for evidence from you because I know how sneaky and deceitful you can be.

I will always condemn wrong doing. But I would like you to realize that neither side is a perfect angel. Between the two though, Israel has a far less bloody history and less evil motives. I stand by them because they aren't DELIBERATELY and religiously trying to murder Palestine. It's even written in the Koran that Israel should die. You can't win this debate. You are a hypocrite because you don't condemn Palestine.
crunkmoose
Fuck Nazis.
24,526 Posts
62/M/MA


offline   (9)
January 3 2010 5:06 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
"My argument about the Native Americans stands because YOU STILL LIVE HERE AND LOVE TO LIVE HERE. If you bash Israel for moving into their land WITHOUT FORCE, why don't you bash Americans for forcing Native Americans for to move out of their homes and taking their land WITH force. You're a hypocrite. And what's worse is you're a hypocrite that doesn't know Jewish history."

So, Matt... why do you live on stolen lands, then, when you support Israel?

I know why I do.... I don't support Israel and I'm part Native American in the first place.
Kadesh
Kadesh
37,497 Posts
35/M/PA


offline     (27)
January 3 2010 5:13 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by: crunkmoose

"My argument about the Native Americans stands because YOU STILL LIVE HERE AND LOVE TO LIVE HERE. If you bash Israel for moving into their land WITHOUT FORCE, why don't you bash Americans for forcing Native Americans for to move out of their homes and taking their land WITH force. You're a hypocrite. And what's worse is you're a hypocrite that doesn't know Jewish history."

So, Matt... why do you live on stolen lands, then, when you support Israel?

I know why I do.... I don't support Israel and I'm part Native American in the first place.



A) Israel did not steal land.
click here for link
You're as bad as he is when it comes to history.

B) I don't agree with kicking Native American's off their land. Unfortunately the rules of the world are that if to live on a land, you must win it. We won it, and made it better than forest dwelling Native American's would make it in a 1000 years. I don't like that this is how anyone gets land, I would prefer that it be as the pilgrams did where everyone could share it, but unfortunately that's how it happened and I can't change it.

C) Realize that my logic is not contradicting. I believe a people has a right to live. With Israel, they came peacefully and are victims of racism when Palestine decided to attack them for moving back to Jerusalem. As a native american, I would think you would understand this. Or maybe you believe Americans should do some racial cleansing with the rest of the Native American people....like Palestine did.
crunkmoose
Fuck Nazis.
24,526 Posts
62/M/MA


offline   (9)
January 3 2010 5:24 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
A. They didn't live there as individuals... others did.

B. "We won it, and made it better than forest dwelling Native American's would make it in a 1000 years."
Even if true... who fucking cares? As for better.... well, most of that forest is gone along with the animals that lived in them.

"I don't like that this is how anyone gets land, I would prefer that it be as the pilgrams did where everyone could share it, but unfortunately that's how it happened and I can't change it."

Yet somehow no one can "win" israel... except the israelis.
LEATHERFACE
Hail Caesar
3,756 Posts
36/M/NC


offline   (7)
January 3 2010 5:58 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Who gave Israel to the jews in the first place? Was it the UN?
all threads All Threads ›› Israel: Uh, yeah... about that settlement freeze..... ›› new reply Post Reply

Quick Reply - RE: Israel: Uh, yeah... about that settlement freeze...

Connect with Facebook to comment: Login w/FB

or Sign up free! - or login:







Subject


wrap selection with italics
wrap selection with bold
insert less than symbol
insert greater than symbol


google image Insert Google Images
Share a Band



Your ad here?