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WREN

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November 27 2009 8:51 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
already pissing me off.

Tigers are talking about shopping Cabrera.
HippieHooligan
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November 27 2009 9:02 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
And granderson.

They need to do something. What they're doing isn't working. I just hope granderson doesn't go to new york.
WREN
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November 27 2009 9:42 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
Well if they are looking to get rid of their best players they might as well look to trade Inge as well.

Honestly they need to hold onto Granderson and Cabrera. Both have great bats and are great in the field. With Polanco (who i think will re-sign with the Tigers) and Inge also holding their own both in the field and at bat. They have all the potential to be great. The problem lies with their pitching. Justin Verlander and Rick Porcello cannot pitch every game.

Really they should be shopping people like Guillen and, as much as it pains me to say it, Ordonez. They should also get rid of that waste of a contract in Dontrelle Willis. He was suppose to be the savior of the pitching rotation and he turned out to be a dud.
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November 27 2009 11:16 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
Inge started off hot and declined progressively throughout the season. No one is gonna take willis unless the tigers pay like 75% of his contract. Ordonez needs to go as well but again, no one is gonna take over that contract. He sucked last year. Without making some drastic changes they aren't gonna any further than they have the last couple of years. Granderson only hit like 240 last year. I know he had 30 bombs but you need more production from a guy that steal bases. He needs to get his obp way up. Cabrera is a stud but are they gonna be able to pay him teixeira type money when new contracts come around and verlander who's gonna demand sabathia money? And deservedly so.
WREN
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November 27 2009 11:22 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
Cabrera is coming up on his 3rd season of 8. He's signed with the Tigers until 2014. Come 2014, he might not be worth the money anymore.

Ordonez almost ended up on the Phillies to replace Pat Burrell. I thought that was kind of interesting.


Also, Inge declined towards the end because of his knees which are being taken care of during the off season. Dude was still diving for stops up until the end. He'll be healthy again next year. He's not one of my concerns.

My current concerns are keeping Granderson, Cabrera, and Polanco as far as fielders go. Ordonez, Guillen and even Larish can go. We also did just pick up some Triple A prospects that are getting good reports but my worries are still there until atleast pre-season starts.

and if i see Curtis Granderson in a Yankees jersey, that will be two heartbreakers too closely together.(first being Pudge going there).
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November 27 2009 11:42 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
I didn't know cabrera still had that much time left. For some reason I thought he signed there longer ago then that. I just can't remember him in a marlins uniform.

Trust me, I don't want to see granderson in a yankees uniform any more than you do. If they're gonna make a trade for somebody, they should trade for carl crawford.

I am not familiar at all with the tigers farm system so I don't know what kind of prospects they have. But if they can get a good package for granderson or anything for ordonez or guillen. Id say go for it. I really think you've seen the best of granderson, and ordonez and guillen for sure. Time to start over. Cutting payroll is nec, especially in detroit.
WREN
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November 27 2009 11:53 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
I still have alot of faith in Granderson. His numbers slipped this year with his batting but they were still above average and his defense was still highly impressive. I fully believe he's still worth the money. I don't see him leaving Detroit personally. There does seem to be a decent amount of talk with the Cabrera trade though.

I understand the idea about cleaning up some of the payroll right now but at the same time why get rid of key players. There are 4 players that Detroit needs to keep. Inge, Granderson, Polanco, and Cabrera. They can basically get rid of the rest of the field, in my opinion. Laird is alright but if he has to go to bring in some other talent, then fuck him.

Pitching is the biggest problem for the Tigers, again in my opinion. Verlander and Porcello performed great this year. Unless they pull a Lidge this upcoming season, i have nothing but confidence in them. My problem is with the rest of the pitching rotation. If trades, drafts, or deals with free agents are done during the off season it's mostly involving pitchers.
WREN
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November 27 2009 11:57 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
no one else has any off season complaints or hopes?
HippieHooligan
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November 27 2009 12:02 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Yea. And the problem with that is, this a weak free agent class. John lackey is the best available pitcher and he's probably gonna sign in new york. There are some serviceable starting pitchers. Like I love joel pineiro. I think he'd be a good fit in philly. He's a sinker ball pitcher so that'll keep most balls in the park and he has one of the lowest whip's in the game. I think he only walked 24 guys last year.

From what I can remember, the tigers' bullpen is pretty solid, but rodney is a free agent right? He's good, I like him. But if they don't resign him there's actually a lot of good relievers this year. Valverde would come fairly cheap. But that's another that I think would fit well in philly.

Do you see them going after any big name free agents? Bay, holliday, lackey? I would guess if they're gonna get rid of granderson or cabrera they probably would. Idk why they would want to shop cabrera though. That's the kind of guy you build a team around.
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November 27 2009 12:04 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by:WREN

no one else has any off season complaints or hopes?



People don't come to the sports forums too often.
WREN
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November 27 2009 12:30 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
If Granderson and Cabrera are up on the trading block it's going to be for another big name. I can't see them giving up one of their stars for something stupid like 3 AAA prospects and a mediocre starter.
WREN
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December 2 2009 9:31 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
Tigers aren't going to re-sign Polanco. They are going into arbitrations with a few players but he's not one of them. I hate that he's not going to be a Tiger anymore.
brian.
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December 2 2009 9:54 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
it would be nice if the cubs could get granderson, seeing as there are zero outfielders on the team
WREN
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December 2 2009 9:55 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
I will probably shed a tear or two if Granderson gets traded.
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December 2 2009 11:55 PM   QuickQuote Quote  
Originally posted by:brian.

it would be nice if the cubs could get granderson, seeing as there are zero outfielders on the team



what are they gonna do with soriano and bradley? is anyone going to want to take on bradley and all his baggage? and soriano's numbers have steadily declined the past few years. and i watch a lot of cubs games cuz we get wgn here, and the announcers always say that he refuses to bat anywhere else in the lineup. i think every team needs a guy with higher average than 240 in the leadoff spot.

honestly, i think the cubs need everythingi just spoke about the OF. whos there CF anyway? reed johnson?

lee is getting older, ended the season strong though last year. fontenot is average, cant remember the other guy. ramirez, gotta hope his shoulder is gonna be ok. he looked great last year until he got hurt. also ended strong.

gregg sucks. i wouldnt even want him as a set up guy. marmol is inconsistent. seems like he needs to walk the bases loaded before he can pitch. zambrano, how long is he gonna be there? is he still an ace? pretty sure i heard trade rumors about him last year. you got randy wells, he looked real good last year. i liked the guy that called up last year was mostly a bench player cuz of schotty defense, i cant remember his name, it was a weird last name though.

also, pineilla is a great coach, but i really think you guys need to start over. new coach and everything. i dont see them going anywhere anytime soon. they play in an overall weak division though, so they may win that by default. i dont see the brewers doing too much to improve they also need pitching. houston will be a 500 team for the next couple years. the pirates are the pirates. and the reds have some good players, they have a solid core group of youngsters, but theyre having problems staying healthy. id say theyre youre biggest problem this year
brian.
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December 3 2009 11:30 AM   QuickQuote Quote  
sadly i think the cubs are stuck with bradley. same with soriano. im sure management is happy keeping soriano, though, because after he gets his first three strikeouts of the day over with, he's ready to hit a clutch HR in the 8th. he'll get a pass because he can hit HRs, then they'll forget about how he swings at any pitch thrown...and that he couldnt catch a beach ball.

they will probably get reed johnson back, who i like a lot, but i think he has averaged something like 80 games the last 4 seasons. he plays out of his mind but he gets hurt too easily. they still have fukudome but hes not even worth talking about, he blew his load the first half of his first season and he's mediocre on his best day now.

lee is getting up there but he is a very good clubhouse guy, still a good defensive 1b, and contributes well. ramirez's laziness is really catching up to him. the shoulder injury just shouldn't have happened. he should be flexible enough to not have that shit happen. he just dove to his right and didnt really do anything from what i could tell, he just doesnt have the flexibility in his shoulders that he really should have. he did lose a bunch of weight in the last year so maybe hes turning that laziness in the gym around. overall hes still a good 3b and hitter, he just has to stay healthy.

the middle infield works well but doesnt really have the experience. i think ryan theroit and mike fontenot are both good defensively, but i dont know if they should be on the field together. offensively fontenot seems to produce in bunches, and theroit is kind of steady, but neither really provides enough power to justfiy them both being in teh lineup at the same time. the cubs picked up aaron miles for some unknown reason to play middle infield and he was worthless. i really wish they could get mark derosa back at second and use fontenot in a utility role while keeping theroit at short.

gregg is awful, end of story. marmol is either going to pitch his way into being the next rick ankiel and go crazy then disappear, because he loves walking people or throwing wild pitches. when he's on, which isn't often, he really is on. one day he could go 1-2-3 in the 9th and the next he could walk the bases loaded. zambrano says (or jokes, who knows) that he wants to retire.

i really hope the cubs bats show up when randy wells pitches next season. i think he started with 5 losses or a few no decisions because he'd throw some good gems but the cubs would be asleep at the plate. he has good mechanics, a good head on his shoulders (was a catcher up until recently), and i think he'll do very well assuming he gets support.


i like lou but i dont think he's the answer. everyone thought don baylor was the answer, wrong. dusty baker? wrong. lou has a better chance than those two but im not seeing it, unless he extends his contract and the ricketts family (new owners) are willing to throw down big money for some quality outfielders, a veteran middle infielder, and at least a closer if not more pitching.
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