Racial Profiling 50 replies, 15945 views

the pigeon
9/16/2005 4:56:00 PM
This was brought up today in my Ethics class and I was wondering everyone's opinion on it. Hopefully this topic hasn't been started before. I looked back a few pages, so I guess not

A lot of people (mostly minorities) find it offensive that they are being profiled as criminals.

What's your standpoint on it?
thewelfareline666
9/16/2005 5:02:00 PM
how did they get these negative profiles in the first place? i am not saying it is right but neither is the fact that i had a bad experience with a dog and am now very on edge when i am around one.
WayneTLV
9/16/2005 5:18:00 PM
I understand racial profiling completely. If theres an area where like 80% of the crime is by Mexicans it only makes sense to be more suspicious of a mexican commiting a crime.
crunkmoose
9/16/2005 6:58:00 PM
"how did they get these negative profiles in the first place?"

Many different reasons... not all necessarily relating to a correlation between race and crime.

"i am not saying it is right but neither is the fact that i had a bad experience with a dog and am now very on edge when i am around one."

That analogy doesn't hold. People are not dogs.

"If theres an area where like 80f the crime is by Mexicans it only makes sense to be more suspicious of a mexican commiting a crime."

The end result, though, is that you are using police resources to check people to see if they have committed a crime... not looking for those who have committed specific crimes. It inherently relies on the idea of checking up on citizens to make sure they are behaving correctly, which is not the place of police.
Matti Frost
9/16/2005 7:35:00 PM
I think people have an oversimplified view of what criminal profiling is. Race sometimes plays a part in profiling. For example, when the FBI profiles serial killers, they are almost always white males, age 30-50 years old. Why? Because the vast majority of serial killers have fit that description. Does it mean that every white guy between 30-50 years old is a serial killer? No. But the preponderance of evidence and the studies done have shown that a serial killer most likely meets those two criterion, among others.

I think that political correctness has hampered our ability to catch criminals because law enforcement doesn't want to be tagged with "racial profiling". However, what sense does it make to, say, frisk an 80 year old woman boarding a plane but not a young male of Middle Eastern descent? You also have to consider that there is more going into profiling than just race. There is appearance, attitude, demeanor. Certain things beyond skin color that criminologists and profilers look for that send up red flags. Boiling this down to an issue of race is counterproductive, and only jeopardizes the safety of law-abiding citizens of all races, religions, and ethnicities.
the pigeon
9/16/2005 7:45:00 PM
Our debate in class covered anything from the media to real life experiences. People who were for it mostly came from rough areas where you wouldn't be allowed walk through at night, and places where you couldn't even go during the day. People against it were mostly rappers and people of colour themselves.

The thing that I feel I'm against is minorities thinking it is all about them. While they are responsible for crime, they aren't the only ones doing it. By the way, Canada lets in refugees because we have a statute for it, and most of these refugees grew up in camps where you steal from others to live and survive. So we have all these people coming to Canada who only know how to steal. They aren't bad people, they haven't experienced our culture and how we have differing norms from their old residences.

So all these minorities think it's against them, and out to get them, but really, the term "racial profiling" does not specify a race. They will have criminal profilists going through every race and making loads of generalizations. That is why I'm for it.
Matti Frost
9/17/2005 10:02:00 PM
Next time, try not to let your hatred of law enforcement get in the way of the facts.

Race is a necessary component of criminal profiling because certain races have committed the lion's share of certain crimes. White males are more likely to be serial killers than black males or women of any race. Young males of Middle Eastern descent have committed the vast majority of homicide bombings and plane hijackings.

And if you don't want to be stopped and "harassed", don't act or dress like a shady person and don't give the cop an attitude should you be stopped.
crunkmoose
9/17/2005 10:25:00 PM
"However, what sense does it make to, say, frisk an 80 year old woman boarding a plane but not a young male of Middle Eastern descent? "

Or a young soldier (tim Mcveigh)

Or a former MIT professor (Ted Kaczynsky)

"And if you don't want to be stopped and "harassed", don't act or dress like a shady person and don't give the cop an attitude should you be stopped. "

And above all, if you don't want to be stopped or harassed... don't be black. Face it... while you make a few good points, then vast majority of racial profiling is NOT looking for suspects of specific crimes such as serial murder and NOT looking for people in a specific area where a terrorist act may be perpetrated... nevermind the fact that the lion's share of terrorism against the US has actually come from South America, not the middle east. That is yet another point... these profiles are usually NOT based on anything but racial stereotypes... such as "arabs are terrorists".

Also, even in cases where the vast majority of crimes are comitted by one race, the vast majority of people of that race are law abiding citizens. It is, thus, utterly ludicrous to profile them when not investigating a specific crime due to the amount of manpower that is necessarily wasted on such a task.

"homicide bombings "

Wait... isn't that political correctness???
Man is Truth
9/17/2005 10:41:00 PM
I lived in a mostly white town- when blacks were around theyd be pulled over. Not bc they were black, but for the same reason a cuban would be pulled over if his cubanness were immediately visible to patrol cars- he is an outsider in a place with nowhere to really shop or do anything except commit crimes or cause trouble. I dont get angry when Im harassed by cops in south jersey bc I look so north jersey italian'y. Its their territory dumbass.
crunkmoose
9/17/2005 10:53:00 PM
"Not bc they were black, but for the same reason a cuban would be pulled over if his cubanness were immediately visible to patrol cars- he is an outsider in a place with nowhere to really shop or do anything except commit crimes or cause trouble. "

... or going to a friend's house... or driving through... or looking to move into the neighborhood... or making a delivery of some sort... or being lost.

Your argument is based on a thoroughly racist assumption... that no one who is non-white would ever have any business in a mostly white neighborhood, dumbass.

"Not bc they were black, but for the same reason a cuban would be pulled over if his cubanness were immediately visible to patrol cars-"

Also... explain to me how they are not being pulled over because they are black.
Man is Truth
9/17/2005 11:34:00 PM
You are not listening as usual. It isnt that the people are automatically morally guilty for being in my neighborhood and being black- logically, statistically, historically, etc, theres nothing to do there that would interest blacks because the blacks who come in are from criminal cultures and neighborhoods. Now, after they are pulled over, if the cop finds out its LeVar Burton, cool, he goes on his way unmolested. Big fuckin deal.
Kadesh
9/18/2005 2:56:00 AM
If many of a race are actually committing crimes, call it as it is. It may be due to being poor and a lack of morality in that culture. Still, call it as it is.
nick danger
9/18/2005 5:35:00 AM
All I'm gonna say is, wide eyed suburban girls in abercrombie are more likely than not thieving little bitches as well.
crunkmoose
9/18/2005 12:33:00 PM
"It isnt that the people are automatically morally guilty for being in my neighborhood and being black"

How so? Their race supposedly provides probable cause to stop and search them...

"- logically, statistically, historically, etc, theres nothing to do there that would interest blacks because the blacks who come in are from criminal cultures and neighborhoods."

That defies logic, is NOT based on statistics... that would be impossible to keep to begin with, and is historical only based on your own limited experiences.

... or going to a friend's house... or driving through... or looking to move into the neighborhood... or making a delivery of some sort... or being lost.

So, no one in any white neighborhoods in your area has black friends or lovers, no one black or of any other race could be making deliveries there like... say... Oh, I dunno... Chinese food from a family restraunt. Black people never drive through these neighborhoods to get somewhere else.

"Now, after they are pulled over, if the cop finds out its LeVar Burton, cool, he goes on his way unmolested. Big fuckin deal."

I sincerely doubt LeVar Burton would see it that way.
crunkmoose
9/18/2005 12:52:00 PM
"The same idiots who oppose racial profiling are the same people who would praise cops for pulling over a skinhead on the grounds that he may be one of those "wp skins" on his way out to commit a "hate crime'. "

And what evidence do you base THAT on? Its utter bullshit.

"Bald head, boots and tattoos (regardless of political beliefs) = trouble. That's in the collective mindset of the people in the West. "

Sounds like many of my friends.

"If you're a business owner and observe a negroe jivin in your store who embodies the image of a stereotypical thug, it's only natural to keep a closer eye on him, than some wide eyed suburban chick dressed abercrombie. Everyone does it. Why should the cops be forbidden?"

How about a white girl "jivin in your store who embodies the image of a stereotypical thug"? Or a "wide eyed black guy dressed abercrombie"?

... and I love how you use the word "suburban" to mean white. Yeah... THATS not racist in the least.

What you describe... while the description itself is utterly racist, would actually be profiling based on behavior and appearance BEYOND race.

"I guarantee all you would be suspicous if you were all on an airplane, and seen a pack of shifty-eyed arabs walk on board. All of you would be asking yourselves "were these guys checked properly"."

Once again you rely on them being "shifty-eyed". If they were behaving suspiciously, yes I would be concerned. I would NOT however, be concerned because of their skin color, and would, in fact be concerned about people acting suspciously no matter what their skin color. (see Eric Rudolph, Tim McVeigh, Ted Kaczynsky, etc...)
Man is Truth
9/18/2005 1:35:00 PM
How so? Their race supposedly provides probable cause to stop and search them...

preemptive intervention to maintain a society's law =/= moral crusade that tains all accused with notions of sin. Why does everyone take every little fuckin thing so personally?

That defies logic, is NOT based on statistics... that would be impossible to keep to begin with,

No it wouldnt- keep track of the blacks that enter my town and find out where theyre from- most are from the nearby ghetto- an ugly place with a criminal culture, and are there to sell drugs. It is actually very simple to keep statistics on.

and is historical only based on your own limited experiences.

Thank you for getting to my point- yes, based on my experience in my neighborhood! Where I lived since I was 6. I think I know it better than you- so much better that the ludicrous suggestion of statistics to confirm what any local knows with his eyes is insulting and a stupid waste of time.

So, no one in any white neighborhoods in your area has black friends or lovers, no one black or of any other race could be making deliveries there like... say... Oh, I dunno... Chinese food from a family restraunt. Black people never drive through these neighborhoods to get somewhere else.

I did not say that, and as per your usual evasive tactic to avoid any responsible discussion, you are putting stupid words in my mouth and taking things to illogical and blind extremes that I did not even leave room to suggest.

An overwhelming majority of outsiders, not just blacks, in my town are there for criminal purposes. The reason is simple; except for crime, there is nothing to fuckin do in my town. Since my towns demographics make blacks immediately visible as outsiders, they are pulled over. If they are there for the number of legitimate reasons you cited, big fuckin deal- off they go. If they open the window and the cars baked out then someone is off to jail.

It sucks, and I tend to side with the black dudes since we need weed too and a nigga gotta eat, but I am not so retarded as to ignore the reality of the situation: police are charged with maintaining the laws of a society. They will do so with the most effective means available to them- stopping suspicious characters that they know have no living tie with the community, and therefore, less motivation to obey its laws and norms, is one of the most effective tools they have. No one gets hurt either, so big fuckin deal.

I sincerely doubt LeVar Burton would see it that way.

Well then fuck him. If people have a problem with being pulled over, they need to die a slow, cruel death, because being pulled over is not something that should trouble anyone.
the pigeon
9/18/2005 1:44:00 PM
If you are against racial profiling, try this one. Walk down a street at night. Make sure that 5 big black dudes are walking towards you. If you cross the street, you just profiled them.

If you ahve EVER crossed the street because you didn't like the look of the person coming towards you, you just profiled them.

P.S. Cops can pull over whoever the fuck they want. They don't need a reason. If they think the black guy riding alone in his car may be up to something, they can stop him. If the cop finds something and books the guy, he just has to say "well, i was checking to make sure he had insurance and found drugs".

If you are against racial profiling I dare you to NEVER cross a street, never move your wallet from your back pocket to the front for safety, and never think twice about walking downtown at 3am. Cause hey, they're black/hispanic/native/indian/etc, but they're with their buddies and just as scared as you are in that dark alley.
Man is Truth
9/18/2005 1:46:00 PM
Itd be dumb to not feel threatened bc those people were white...
crunkmoose
9/18/2005 1:51:00 PM
"No it wouldnt- keep track of the blacks that enter my town and find out where theyre from- most are from the nearby ghetto- an ugly place with a criminal culture, and are there to sell drugs. It is actually very simple to keep statistics on."

Actually... its NOT simple to keep statistics on. In fact it would be damned near impossible to keep statistics on every black person who enters your town.

"yes, based on my experience in my neighborhood! Where I lived since I was 6. I think I know it better than you- so much better that the ludicrous suggestion of statistics to confirm what any local knows with his eyes is insulting and a stupid waste of time. "

Ah, I see... so no need for any actual proof... you can just extrapolate for the entire world based on your neighborhood...

"I did not say that, and as per your usual evasive tactic to avoid any responsible discussion, you are putting stupid words in my mouth and taking things to illogical and blind extremes that I did not even leave room to suggest. "

Ahem:""- logically, statistically, historically, etc, theres nothing to do there that would interest blacks because the blacks who come in are from criminal cultures and neighborhoods.""

There is nothing to do in your neighborhood that would interest blacks... like the things I listed...

"An overwhelming majority of outsiders, not just blacks, in my town are there for criminal purposes. The reason is simple; except for crime, there is nothing to fuckin do in my town. "

So... no one who has friends who live out of town... no one ever drives through your town... no one ever stops in your town to eat... no one in your town ever has food delivered because there are no restraunts there... no one in your town dates someone outside of town...

This town you live in gets more and more interesting each time you speak of it. Its almost like something out of HP Lovecraft. Tell the truth... do you live in Cthuluville?

"police are charged with maintaining the laws of a society. They will do so with the most effective means available to them- stopping suspicious characters that they know have no living tie with the community, and therefore, less motivation to obey its laws and norms, is one of the most effective tools they have. No one gets hurt either, so big fuckin deal."

Well, you've said a mouthful here.. First... how are they suspicious besides not living in that town? And how does one know they are from out of town? And why would them not living in the community make them less motivated to obey laws? And since when have police been around to enforce "norms"? No one gets hurt? Easy to say being white. Go ask someone pulled over for driving while black if he was hurt by the experience.

"Well then fuck him. If people have a problem with being pulled over, they need to die a slow, cruel death, because being pulled over is not something that should trouble anyone."

You REALLY need to go spend some time in the South. You might just start to understand why people find being pulled over and treated as criminals because of the color of their skin something they will not stand for. If you don't get why minorities, especially blacks might find this practice to be more than a bit racist then you need to start looking at the history of race in this country a bit more.

Tell me... would YOU enjoy being treated like a criminal wherever you go just because of your skin color???

Why don't you try moving to an area where YOU are in the minority for a while and see how you feel then.
Man is Truth
9/18/2005 3:05:00 PM
h, I see... so no need for any actual proof... you can just extrapolate for the entire world based on your neighborhood...

Yes, thats a gift that people with above a rudimentary, Aborigine level of awareness have; they see behavior and can extract from that principles that are manifested in different ways the world over.

Ahem:""- logically, statistically, historically, etc, theres nothing to do there that would interest blacks because the blacks who come in are from criminal cultures and neighborhoods.""

There is nothing to do in your neighborhood that would interest blacks... like the things I listed...


No, again, not what I said- how many times do I have to repeat myself with you? An overwhelming majority of blacks are there to sell drugs, or, impregnate the trashier elements on the poorer blocks. If a guy is not there for that, -LIKE I SAID ALREADY- know what hes suffered?

Holy shit! Hes just been pulled over! Poor him. Fuck, what can we do? No one should suffer that indignity!

Man is Truth
9/18/2005 3:17:00 PM
Well, you've said a mouthful here.. First... how are they suspicious besides not living in that town?

Thats it. If you cant see how outsiders wouldnt be suspicious, and fail to imagine exactly why someone might feel this way, you are of a lower order of intelligence than my dog, who, though incapable of such empathy, still can at least hear the mandate of its most basic territorial instincts.

And how does one know they are from out of town?

Because they are black, and blacks dont live in my town- I said that 3 times now you fucking retard.

And why would them not living in the community make them less motivated to obey laws?

Another absolutely retarded question that illuminates the most perverse lack of depth on your part. You are not going to assert that people are equally likely to respect the limitations of people they are not personally bound to? In places where authority doesnt scare them, and makes rules for people in an entirely different situation?

And since when have police been around to enforce "norms"?

Since there were police. Its the nature of power. Youve never seen a cop tell a kid, "get to school?" Or something simple like, "show some respect?" People with power use it to model the world as they think it should be.

No one gets hurt? Easy to say being white. Go ask someone pulled over for driving while black if he was hurt by the experience.

Ok. And if they say it hurt them I will immediately disregard their opinion on any other matter, bc anyone that thin-skinned has no right participating in any intelligent process.

You REALLY need to go spend some time in the South. You might just start to understand why people find being pulled over and treated as criminals because of the color of their skin something they will not stand for. If you don't get why minorities, especially blacks might find this practice to be more than a bit racist then you need to start looking at the history of race in this country a bit more.

In history, a negro being "treated as a criminal" meant being regularly harassed, degraded, insulted, physically abused and threatened.

Today, when a guy is a "victim" of racial profiling, it means he was pulled over and asked where hes headed, and to produce his drivers license and registration. That is not being victimised and is not something anyone has any right to get angry about. That you are even making it an issue fills me with this rushing ancient murderlust that I cant even describe.

Tell me... would YOU enjoy being treated like a criminal wherever you go just because of your skin color???

I dont -enjoy- it when its happened to me, but since when are the fuckin POLICE responsible for filling my life with joy? They are not there to make me happy. In my community, certainly I can make that case and demand that they treat me better, but, when Im the outsider in a town where another body is charged with maintaining its laws, of course I should expect to find a hard time. I dont take it personally. Its how people behave, like...fucking people. If I held that against them I might as well argue with gravity or sunset.

Why don't you try moving to an area where YOU are in the minority for a while and see how you feel then.

Im a minority in my town now at school, its all blacks, and I love it. These negroes are awesome.
crunkmoose
9/18/2005 3:23:00 PM
"Yes, thats a gift that people with above a rudimentary, Aborigine level of awareness have; they see behavior and can extract from that principles that are manifested in different ways the world over."

Really? You see, I've never seen an intelligent person do this... Instead they appreciate that circumstances differ throughout the world in many ways. I have, however, seen ignorant racist dicks do this time and again... even in the face of evidence to the contrary of what they claim.

"No, again, not what I said"

So, explain to me, then what you DID say. Because you aren't being very clear...

"- how many times do I have to repeat myself with you? "

Here's a clue... repetition isn't going to make me believe you... actually being able to make an argument... not just post a rhetorical diatribe might do it.

"An overwhelming majority of blacks are there to sell drugs, or, impregnate the trashier elements on the poorer blocks. If a guy is not there for that, -LIKE I SAID ALREADY- know what hes suffered?"

So now you are coming up with other things they could be there for... interesting.

Most are there to sell drugs... which you have no proof of beyond your own belief.... unless they are there to have sex... which is perfectly legal and not something that comes under the purvue of the local police in any way as long as both parties are of consenting age.

... so apparently there are things that blacks are interested in in your town that are NOT illegal... hmmm.

"Holy shit! Hes just been pulled over! Poor him. Fuck, what can we do? No one should suffer that indignity!"

You're right. No one should be checked up on by police to make sure they are not doing anything wrong not because they are doing anything suspicious... but because of the color of their skin.
Man is Truth
9/18/2005 3:39:00 PM
Really? You see, I've never seen an intelligent person do this... Instead they appreciate that circumstances differ throughout the world in many ways.

No- heres what I mean. When you see a squirrel run away from a hawk, and then a hawk fly off to avoid a rottweiler, a 2 year old, or someone with downs syndrome maybe, might see these are two entirely different situations. Anyone capable of survival in reality would see it as two conditioned expressions of the same desire not to get eaten.

So now you are coming up with other things they could be there for... interesting.

For the now fourth time in plain and shared language- they could have plenty of reasons to be there. Theres a pier in my town, for example, that blacks dig for fishing. After they are pulled over for being black say, the truth of this destination can be established by a cop seeing the evident fishing equipment. When its some negro with a NY plate and 50 Cent setting off car alarms from bass, fuck him. In either case, no one is hurt. They are just stopped.

Most are there to sell drugs... which you have no proof of beyond your own belief....

If we extracted a villager from the congo and interviewed him about village life based on his 17 years in a given village, he would be considered an expert on that way of life more than an egghead at some university with statistics on infant mortality and the like, no?

unless they are there to have sex... which is perfectly legal and not something that comes under the purvue of the local police in any way as long as both parties are of consenting age.

Again, you are being a naive dickhead arguing the letter of the law, not what is in the hearts of men and the nature of how they will always wield their power. Who gives a fuck whats legal? When did we even start discussing that?

You're right. No one should be checked up on by police to make sure they are not doing anything wrong not because they are doing anything suspicious... but because of the color of their skin.

I disagree, and if you are willing to bitch to this degree over something as insignificant and pointless as being stopped by a police officer, who is hired as a weapon by a state, then you must be a real miserable cocksucker bro.
crunkmoose
9/18/2005 3:41:00 PM
"If you cant see how outsiders wouldnt be suspicious, and fail to imagine exactly why someone might feel this way, you are of a lower order of intelligence than my dog, who, though incapable of such empathy, still can at least hear the mandate of its most basic territorial instincts."

So.. intelligent people... are scared of anyone they don't know...

intelligent people think anyone from out of town should be pulled over... because they might... just might... commit a crime... somewhere...at some time....

"Because they are black, and blacks dont live in my town- I said that 3 times now you fucking retard."

Oh wait... but you fear people from out of town... and not all people from out of town are black... but maybe they are in miraculous Cthuluville...

"Another absolutely retarded question that illuminates the most perverse lack of depth on your part. You are not going to assert that people are equally likely to respect the limitations of people they are not personally bound to? In places where authority doesnt scare them, and makes rules for people in an entirely different situation? "

Wait, now... the police don't scare people once they leave their own towns.. Not sure I understand how that works. They still have guns... they can still arrest your ass... in fact, in your town they are more likely to do so... but people from out of town are LESS afraid of them.

And.. you are "personally bound" to every person in your town? Must be a really small town.

Oh, but wait... authority makes rules for people in an entirely different situation... you mean laws are significantly different in your town than in other surrounding towns???

Seriously, you talk about your town and its apparently retarded existence just like you talk about your sad little nazivedicviking fantasies....

"Today, when a guy is a "victim" of racial profiling, it means he was pulled over and asked where hes headed, and to produce his drivers license and registration. "

Yes... its called unreasonable search and seizure (sp?). He is not suspected of a specific crime. He is not behaving suspiciously. We tend to frown on that sort of thing here in america. I know you prefer the fascism of Cthuluville... but too bad.

"That is not being victimised and is not something anyone has any right to get angry about. "

Ahem... see the constitution as it applies to unreasonable searches. I know that since you see yourself as some kind of sad viking uber-mensch for whom no laws would apply but your own honor in your own little fantasy world... but here in the real world people don't like being treated like criminals and they do not care for authority checking up on them in such a way.

"That you are even making it an issue fills me with this rushing ancient murderlust that I cant even describe."

It was absolutely all I could do to keep from bursting out laughing like a madman at this utterly ludicrous melodramatic piece of claptrap. I truly cannot express how pathetically funny I found this. Have you ever killed anything in your entire life? Have you ever even fired a gun? gutted an animal? My god, If I didn't know better I would swear you were the 30something year old bald guy I saw at the MIT flea market today in a big yellow pikachu shirt with his huge gut hanging down from under it... I mean this is just the most pathetic and funny thing I have read on here... EVER!

"In my community, certainly I can make that case and demand that they treat me better, but, when Im the outsider in a town where another body is charged with maintaining its laws, of course I should expect to find a hard time. "

Uh... no.

"I might as well argue with gravity or sunset."

that says so much about your view of authority and what a pathetic little follower you are.

"Im a minority in my town now at school, its all blacks, and I love it. These negroes ar
Man is Truth
9/18/2005 3:51:00 PM
So.. intelligent people... are scared of anyone they don't know...

intelligent people think anyone from out of town should be pulled over... because they might... just might... commit a crime... somewhere...at some time....


No, but intelligent people understand that the people responsible for the safety of a community have to obey more basic laws of force and territory than those of us removed from such responsibilities.

Oh wait... but you fear people from out of town... and not all people from out of town are black... but maybe they are in miraculous Cthuluville...

Is that your way of ignoring that you clearly didnt pick up on the demographic part of my argument since my first post in the thread?

Wait, now... the police don't scare people once they leave their own towns.. Not sure I understand how that works. They still have guns... they can still arrest your ass... in fact, in your town they are more likely to do so... but people from out of town are LESS afraid of them.

If they do not make their presence known by showing that force in their face and wielding their power- correct. If you go into a town and never see a cop and are not pulled over, are you more likely to roll up to the beach with a fat spliff? Hell yes.

And.. you are "personally bound" to every person in your town? Must be a really small town.

I know that my father is going to run into al kinds of locals in the supermarket, and the post office, etc, so yes, I am bound to my community, as everyone should be. That is a normal setting for which mankind is genetically and psychologically optimised. In a place where the actions I take do not affect anyone I know or am responsible for, it is more likely that I do not give a shit.

Oh, but wait... authority makes rules for people in an entirely different situation... you mean laws are significantly different in your town than in other surrounding towns???

Not what I said- I said that the laws were written by and for people not in the same situation as blacks around me, or really anywhere in america- you think they uphold this objective sanctity of private property when they have to steal if they want garlic powder?

Yes... its called unreasonable search and seizure (sp?). He is not suspected of a specific crime. He is not behaving suspiciously. We tend to frown on that sort of thing here in america. I know you prefer the fascism of Cthuluville... but too bad.

This does not change the reality of the fact that being pulled over does NOT HURT. NO HARM IS DONE. NO SHAME IS SUFFERED.


Ahem... see the constitution as it applies to unreasonable searches. I know that since you see yourself as some kind of sad viking uber-mensch for whom no laws would apply but your own honor in your own little fantasy world... but here in the real world people don't like being treated like criminals and they do not care for authority checking up on them in such a way.


Thats a shame. When people cant see cops for cops, there is a problem. And it isnt on the shoulders of the police.

"In my community, certainly I can make that case and demand that they treat me better, but, when Im the outsider in a town where another body is charged with maintaining its laws, of course I should expect to find a hard time. "

Uh... no.

So its not wise and imprudent to expect to be treated differently by police than the kids that go to school with their children?

that says so much about your view of authority and what a pathetic little follower you are.

So its unwise to understand that even the earth and sun obey basic laws of force that are as unalterable as your delirious and contemptuous little self-righteous lala land?

Wait... but how exactly do you go to a school full of blacks... when you live in
Matti Frost
9/18/2005 4:02:00 PM
Originally posted by:crunkmoose

Or a young soldier (tim Mcveigh)

Or a former MIT professor (Ted Kaczynsky)

You're citing the very small minority of people who have committed terrorist acts. There was a serial killer named Eileen Wuornos (not sure of spelling). And then there was a Latino serial killer whose name, I think, was Robert Resendez-Rodriguez. But they aren't close to being on par with the sheer number of while males who have committed serial murder.

And above all, if you don't want to be stopped or harassed... don't be black. Face it... while you make a few good points, then vast majority of racial profiling is NOT looking for suspects of specific crimes such as serial murder and NOT looking for people in a specific area where a terrorist act may be perpetrated...


We're dealing with two different definitions of profiling. You are using what is commonly called "racial profiling". Cop sees black guy driving a nice car, well, he must be a drug dealer, let's stop him and find out. But I am talking about criminal profiling as a whole, where race is a part but not the whole of what makes up the profile.

nevermind the fact that the lion's share of terrorism against the US has actually come from South America, not the middle east. That is yet another point... these profiles are usually NOT based on anything but racial stereotypes... such as "arabs are terrorists".


In the last decade, where has most of the terrorism come from? I am unaware of people from South America committing acts of terrorism- why haven't they been reported?

Also, even in cases where the vast majority of crimes are comitted by one race, the vast majority of people of that race are law abiding citizens.


On this, you and I are in complete agreement.

It is, thus, utterly ludicrous to profile them when not investigating a specific crime due to the amount of manpower that is necessarily wasted on such a task.


Which is why I am not advocating the simple form of racial profiling that you're describing, but race does play a part, to try and scrub that out so some people who misunderstand it are not offended is a dangerous folly.

Wait... isn't that political correctness???


No. A suicide bomber kills more than just themselves. They kill others. I call it what it is- homicide.